Sergio Perez, Red Bull, Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya, 2022

Perez: Red Bull said they would reverse first position swap with Verstappen

2022 Spanish Grand Prix

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Sergio Perez says Red Bull told him he would get his place back after letting Max Verstappen overtake him early in the Spanish Grand Prix.

It proved to be the first of two occasions on which Perez was instructed to let Verstappen overtake him.

“On the first stint when I let Max by I was told that I was going to get it back and we knew we were on different strategies,” Perez said after the race.

Perez was running behind Verstappen and George Russell early in the race. Verstappen then spun and rejoined the track behind his team mate.

After Perez made several attempts to pass Russell, his race engineer Hugh Bird told him: “Okay Checo let Max have a shot. Let him through before four.”

(L to R): Max Verstappen, Red Bull; George Russell, Mercedes; Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya, 2022
Gallery: 2022 Spanish Grand Prix in pictures
Perez asked for “one more lap” but was told: “Let’s give him a shot now. We’ll pay it back later.”

Verstappen was unable to pass Russell at first due to an intermittent problem with his DRS. Red Bull therefore moved him onto a three-stop strategy while Perez, who was later able to pass Russell, pitted twice.

That put Perez back in front of Verstappen, who closed rapidly after his third pit stop. Perez was again told to give up the lead of the race to Verstappen, who went on to win.

“When I was back on it I felt like I could have gone through [Russell] and probably give a better shot at my strategy to make it work,” Perez added. “But at the end of the day, it turned out to be the three-stop the way to go today.”

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The three-stop strategy gave “a better race time of the various strategies”, said Perez. “So I think if I went in that direction I would have won the race. And it worked out for Max.

Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya, 2022
Transcript: “Why won’t you let me by?” Team orders and DRS dramas on Red Bull’s radio in Spain
“I think that was something we discussed, it was good because we didn’t know at the time which strategy was going to be the best one.”

He said he would have had a chance of making his two-stop strategy work had he been able to get his position back from Verstappen the first time he passed him.

“I only felt that in the first stint, when I gave the position to Max, that I was told that I was going to get it back, and when I was on the two-stop I felt that I could have gone through Max and George a bit earlier to try and make the strategy work.

“But probably it wouldn’t have still been enough. But still it is a great team result.”

Perez, who eventually made a third pit stop in order to take the bonus point for fastest lap, was pleased with the one-two finish for the team but said there are matters he wants to discuss with them following the race.

“The season is still very young. And I think the momentum in the team is great. So we just have to discuss things internally.

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“But there’s nothing that I’m concerned of. If anything, I can say that the atmosphere in the team, the momentum we’re carrying, it’s tremendous, like no other team. So I’m pleased with that.”

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said it made no sense to allow the two drivers to fight at the end of the race.

“[Verstappen] very quickly closed on Checo and at that stage there was a tyre delta of close to two seconds a lap,” he said. “So with [high] water temperatures, oil temperatures, DRS that was intermittently working, it didn’t make any sense to let them fight because it was an unfair fight anyway.

“And as it turned out we had to pit Checo anyway for the end of the race. So both drivers worked together as a team and to get the maximum points today was hugely important on a day that unfortunately Ferrari had an issue.”

Horner believes Perez will understand the team’s tactics once he has the full picture of how the race unfolded. “I spoke with him when he got out of the car. The problem for any driver if they don’t have the clear overview of the strategy or a race plot in front of them it’s always going to be emotive to give up the lead. He played very much the team game.

“I think he understood clearly it wasn’t a like-for-like fight because the pace delta between the strategies was so great. From a team point of view I think for me it just didn’t make any sense which was why we didn’t let the drivers get into a fight today.”

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2022 Spanish Grand Prix

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117 comments on “Perez: Red Bull said they would reverse first position swap with Verstappen”

  1. I think they could’ve let Checo pass Max at that 2nd situation but the letting Max trough on those other occasions seemed logical.

    He was so much quicker in qualy and race.

    1. ThreePurpleSectors (@)
      22nd May 2022, 22:49

      @anunaki, Checo could have won the race had they released him to fight for victory early on. Instead the team was focused on keeping him behind Max. Its that simple. They engineered Checo out of victory. Checo is very smart though. He’s not as foolish as Ricciardo. The choice is simiple: Be Max’s lap dog and compete at the front of the grid or throw your career away like Ricciardo searching for greener pastures.

      1. I don’t agree that they didn’t want to let Perez win. But as he is behind and logic says he will not be challenging LeClerc for the title (as Max is almost always a bit faster) they maximised the championship result for both drivers and the team. Checo did score 19 points. Max will have a good run at the title of things go right with reliability.. Perez might have a slim chance, but realistically even without team orders he would lose out. So support the fastest driver instead of fighting eachother makes perfect sense.

      2. Checo’s chance for victory was gone on the early stages when Max couldn’t pass Rus and Checo had better tires yet RB kept Checo behind Max. The other 2 instances later in the race are consequences of the first, so for the later part of the race Checo’s strategy was already compromised and it made sense to let Max (faster) pass – I think Max would had passed Checo anyways as he is faster – .
        But it is good to see that Checo is not OK to just play wingman and aims for race wins and at this early stage of the season even try fighting for the top, so RBR should be happy to see that.
        I think at this stage of the season Checo is only 1 race win away from taking the lead if Lecrerc and Max DNF (or take each other out) so we could see why the push and frustration today.

        1. I do wonder, not that this is at all replicable / scientifically possible. What if 2nd drivers ran their own races? And how would history be different if the Barrichello, Coulthards, Bottas’ of the world didn’t do as they were told. I recently rewatched the late 90’s and you’d be surprised how often Coulthard is well ahead of Hakkinen and Schumacher, how many world championships would be different? Moss famously gave up his car, so that’s probably one. Obviously a lot of drivers would’ve been out of a drive the next season, so I guess we will never been able to equate it.

      3. I understand the feeling but this is a sports competition. Given how close it was in points last year it would be sub optimal for a team to do anything else. They’d be robbing themselves.

      4. No way Ricciardo is foolish. He is champion material in my view. Just needs a good car. I would have done the same as him in his shoes. I rate him better than Perez. I like Perez but I don’t think he can beat Max.

        1. @m47e57 Ricciardo can’t beat Norris in the same car, what makes you think he can beat Verstappen?

          1. You know, I can’t explain it but I think the talent is there. I think he is better than Norris too. When it came to Verstappen I think the difference there was not so clear. Both looked to be at a similar level but Red Bull still favoured Max.

          2. Davethechicken
            24th May 2022, 13:08

            You have a short memory. Riccardo scored, more points, more wins and more poles than Max during their time as teammates at RBR.

      5. In the end, Perez was 11 laps behind Russell at the start. Verstappen had his slide in lap 9 and was behind both for a while. Perez still not overtaking. Max stopped in lap 13.

        The second time around, Perez wasn’t exactly pushing the matter, keeping a 1,5-2 second distance. That only lasted 2 laps before Verstappen pitted again. So what is this talk about winning? The race winning move for Perez could have been anywhere between laps 1-11 and he didn’t do it.

    2. With Perez being off the pace in every GP, including the Spanish GP there’s no logic in Verstappen ‘wasting’ time behind his team mate due to DRS issues. Perez struggled to get passed Russell with DRS, Max was potentially much faster, but struggled with Mercedes surplus of top speed without DRS.

      The first order was logic as RBR did not know Max DRS was broken. The second was maybe even more logic as Verstappen closed in at 1.5 sec/lap… getting into a fight with a possible DRS malfunction would have allowed Russell to close in again.

      I know people love to make a story out of it, but for RBR this was a no-brainer, Perez was also quite realisitc about it during the post race interviews. Sure he prefered to win, but even Perez can not deny Verstappens pace is simply much better.

    3. There is nothing to discuss. The team told him to disappear into the distance or give the place if he comes close. He gave the place with a 0.3s difference. He most likely wouldn’t have held off Verstappen ven with crippled DRS. He was too quick.

      > 2s offset to Verstappen in reds
      > 1.5s when in mediums 8 laps older.

      ~Fin

    4. But Perez did fought back at Russel pretty well and gained the position. I think redbull was being unfair to Perez. He also racing for victory as well , obviously. I think Perez deserved that victory

  2. Hard to make an argument for Perez here. He’s consistently slower than not just Verstappen, but also LEC. Add Sainz to that when he isn’t taking himself out of competition, and now with the Mercedes’ in the mix again, why would he get priority over the guy that’s legitimately the WDC contender, who with a win thanks to Charles’ misfortune was able to take the lead with a few points margin to boot.

    I get it’s a bitter pill, but he surely knows what he signed up for here. You prioritize the WDC contender in a tight battle, always.

    1. I disagree. This is motor racing (remember red bull pleading with the race director to “let them race”?) Now team orders are a necessary evil.as the season progresses but this early in the season we should see teammates race with reasonable parameters. Perez was far faster at the point he requested to be let through and should have been allowed to. If he had he may well have won the race. The problem is that Max is only a team player when the team member he is up against is letting him past…

      1. You clearly don’t want to remember Bahrein 2018 when valtteri race was sacrificed with a long stint to slow down vettel

        1. Stint 1 Stint 2
          Sebastian Vettel Super soft (18) Soft (39)
          Valtteri Bottas Super soft (20) Medium (37)
          Lewis Hamilton Soft (26) Medium (31)

          I’ll just leave this here……

          1. I think he probably got the race and situation wrong, I remember something about china, pretty sure it was also in 2018, where bottas was driving very well and was ahead, and I think ferrari left raikkonen out with old tyres to slow him down to allow vettel to get past, but bottas managed an interesting overtake and kept the lead.

          2. That bahrain race I remember it as vettel saying his tyres were done in the end and he was actually struggling to defend from bottas, the only way he made it is that bottas isn’t known to be a good overtaker.

          3. @esploratore1 Given that @f1-ploss has blown one idle conjecture out of the water, I think a bit more proof is needed than just ‘I remember something’, ‘pretty sure’ and ‘I think’!? Maybe some facts?

            Red Bull are built around one talent, Max Verstappen, in a way similar to Schumacher and Ferrari. I don’t think Mercedes have the same ethos from the season outset. Rosberg and Hamilton were treated as equally as you can get. It’s plausible Mercedes/Wolff then decided they wanted a less combative driver to take Rosberg’s place and expected Bottas to cause less internal friction. But he took the lead of the championship various times with no issue. His ‘assist’ duties occurred later in the season – even in the years against a competitive Ferrari. This year it’s plain to see that despite Russell being a young driver and new at Mercedes, he’s on equal terms in the team.

            Of course were Perez suddenly to be faster and start beating Max regularly over a weekend, outqualifying and staying ahead on track, then Red Bull might have to start reevaluating Max’s status as number one. But that’s not going to happen. And you’d need a driver of Russell’s calibre alongside Max to see that (potentially) happen. Which Red Bull will never allow.

          4. @esploratore1 i clearly recall a race in the first four of 2018 where he was used like this, i’ll recheck

  3. there’s enough happiness one can get being relegated to scraps every single time, even when he does a good job.
    Perez is learning that now.

    They telling him he was on a different strategy when both were to go untill the end felt like “you’re not supposed to win this”.

    1. It was pretty nauseating listening to that excuse when they should have just flatly told him to move aside as they clearly wanted him to from the moment they signed him.

  4. We are at this point of a season where it is clear who is #2.

    I bet nobody told Hamilton yet.

    1. @jureo
      Red Bull must be so unsure of their own first driver, since they forbid the supposed second one to compete from day one! :D

      1. For sure, there is nothing certain in this title fight.

        Leclerc is amazing, Mercedes fixed their car, and Red Bull reliability is far from reliable.

        They need all the points they can get, and Verstappen is their best, yet uncertain bet.

    2. Merc doesnt have the wingman strategy of RBR

      1. No not this year. They’ve got Hamilton’s replacement in the 2nd car instead of a support driver like they had for the last 5 seasons. Once Hamilton retires, I’m sure they’ll bring a support driver in for him because it’s needed in a close title fight.

      2. I don’t think Hamilton would be as complacent as Perez to play second fiddle.

      3. Noframingplease (@)
        23rd May 2022, 7:49

        @romtrain So the first year in 7 years that MB doesn’t have a puppet for your Goat, you come up with this?

        1. Merc usually dont do the wingman strategy. And the teammates of HAM were much less of a puppet than any teammate of VER at RBR.

          RBR does it since many years and Perez is the same like Barrichello was in Schumis times at Ferrari. He will never be alllowed to finish in front of Verstappen.

          1. Noframingplease (@)
            23rd May 2022, 10:44

            @roman Oh that’s alright with me if that’s your opinion, but I think you haven’t seen the last 7 years of F1 races (and especially the role of Bottas at mb) or your bias is too big. Reading you earlier reaction it’s probably the last. Of course this was a wingman strategy, like we have seen the last 7 years at MB.

          2. Yeah, Russia 2017 lol

    3. @jureo Why would Lewis care who is “golden boi” at RBR? It’s always been obvious anyway. But I suspect you are just having a dig.
      Meanwhile MB are allowing their drivers to compete, as they always have, until a championship is at stake. GR is doing great so far, very happy to see it.
      It will be hard for anyone to fight back to challenge RBR and Ferrari, but we will see over the whole season.

    4. Hamilton clearly had the better race setup and the faster car. All things being equal he would i am surly have over taken Russell.. Thanks to Magnuson we shall never know.

      Im guessing Mercedes deliberately had the two cars on different setups and strategy. Whilst Russell got the better position, Hamiton had all things set for a better race. On his harder tires, he would have driven a longer stint, to pit and come out clear of the rest.

      Not only did he nearly get 4th untill until forced to return the positon to Sainz due to ‘sensor’ readings, he also spent the most time in the pits, with that first stint to remove the puncture costing him an extra 10 seconds. That would have easily placed in the top 3, even with the Ferraris in the mix.

      2nd string driver – i think not. He’s just desperately unlucky so far.

      1. Yes, it was indeed impressive by hamilton this time, I was also impressed by russell, but I never thought hamilton would’ve recovered that much, and the car still felt like 3rd best.

  5. Perez is the most obvious of wingmen in history, as every other Verstappen teammate.
    Yet people still go on with the old “valtteri is james” rhetoric, which happens ONCE in five years.
    ROTFL

    1. Here’s a top 5 for you;)

      https://youtu.be/VvLycBdR-54

    2. @Fantomius why are you so upset? Verstappen had better tires, was a lot faster than Perez, why even think about letting Perez defend? as a team why risk it? it’s stupid.

    3. @liko41 If it’s only happened once in 5 years, how come we’ve all heard it in over 10 races?

    4. Happened many times indeed, to the point when bottas won a race he dared say “james, it’s valtteri!”.

    5. Noframingplease (@)
      23rd May 2022, 8:23

      @liko41, What I said earlier, please don’t teach in history, you are not good at it.

    6. distorted orange reality…

  6. How will this develop in future races?
    Will Sergio refuse to obey team orders? Will Horner have to threaten him in order to comply? Will a “Checo, this is Christian” meme emerge?
    So many questions, so few answers…

    1. Ahah, that meme sounds like it could be interesting!

    2. Noframingplease (@)
      23rd May 2022, 7:53

      @x303 Not in another way you could have seen the last 10 years at MB. No Horner needed for that. Instead of that, praise him like Wolff.

      1. @nofanboysplease It’s just how it is these days – not just in F1 but everywhere in life. People pick their tribe and then look to discredit the opposition. You can load up Twitter and look at any discussion and it’ll be the same. Someone says something and someone will try to discredit them rather than . If they get proven wrong, they’ll throw a strawman argument into the mix to try and win it that way.

        It’s a perfect example of that – you make a point and then someone says “you must not have watched F1 for very long.” Clearly they don’t have a valid point to make so will just look to discredit yours instead.

        It’s hilarious seeing the same people who would have defended Bottas being a support driver suddenly saying how awful it is for Red Bull to do the same thing. They’re the same people who complain about F1 focussing on “the show” but are now suddenly complaining that swapping positions is bad for the show because it validates their argument….

  7. Poor from Red Bull, so early in the season with clearly the quickest car. It’s not like Perez is usually any kind of a threat, but gotta keep golden boy happy, the number 2 driver is expendable as we’ve seen at Red Bull many times now.

    1. Is it really that hard to understand that they’re looking at the points to Charles, not Perez? This isn’t Mercedes 2014 or 2016, where one team can just fight it out amongst themselves and not worry about their lead driver losing a few points here and there.

      Did last season not show you that every single point counts at the end of the season, no matter what number race you obtained said point at?

      They capitalized on Leclerc’s retirement by getting the maximum points for their WDC contender. Imagine calling that “poor.”

      1. @sjaakfoo But why demoralise your second driver so early in the year, when you may *really* need his support later on? If they’d have let Perez win this, Max would still be clear of him, would have still closed up on Charles and the team wouldn’t have been materially affected.

  8. I have a couple of other observations.
    Why are there still problems with Max’s rear wing when there are no problems with Checo’s? I’m guess Max has different/newer technology than Checo just like last year when Max’s rear wing would deflect and Checo’s didn’t.

    According to Christian, Checo’s car was close to failing so he was told to back off on the power. Max’s car, even though Max was pushing harder without DRS, had no such issues. Again, Checo must have a 2nd tier car to Max’s.

    And let’s not forget that Checo had to sit out the first practice this weekend.

    And if we go back to the last race of last year, Checo had to retire the car with one flying lap left in the race because his car wasn’t going to be able to finish 4 safety car and 1 race lap.

    Feel badly for the wingman.

    1. According to Christian, Checo’s car was close to failing

      @jimfromus I wouldn’t quote Horner as an entirely reliable source.

    2. The Dolphins
      23rd May 2022, 4:08

      Good observations Jim, you’re right I feel bad for him as well. I imagine Red Bull’s next contract offer will spell it out very clearly for him.

      1. Damn, again with these number 1 and 2 allegations… if perez had a real chance to outperform verstappen on a regular basis, he WOULD become number 1, as ricciardo did to vettel and then leclerc did to vettel and as russell is doing now to hamilton, I’m not saying hamilton is done, but there were a lot of people saying russel wouldn’t be allowed to compete etc.

        1. …but there were a lot of people saying russel wouldn’t be allowed to compete etc.

          None of them being actual Mercedes fans!

    3. Why did Leclercs car break down and not Sainz. They must favor Sainz! Seriously… it is a technical sport. Sometimes things go wrong. All you can hope is to be lucky its not your car. There is no more to it. Teams get more money if both cars finish.

    4. Marko stated that Checo’s car didn’t bring the newest updates this weekend, only Max’s.

  9. Sergio Perez says Red Bull told him he would get his place back after letting Max Verstappen overtake him early in the Spanish Grand Prix.

    And he believed it.
    “Let them ‘race'”, but if MV is behind, “Get of of the way!”
    This is why Danny Ric left the team.

    1. Danny is doing great these days. A big miss for RB.

      1. Danny Ric was the best team mate to Max RB could have hoped for – a man who secures the win whenever his
        superhuman team mate fails to score.

        But Ricciardo is just not the doormat type, so he left. Probably regrets it a lot these days…

        1. The Dolphins
          23rd May 2022, 4:11

          Probably regrets it a lot these days…

          I doubt Daniel even thinks about it. If anything he sees what happened in the race and thinks, “I’m sure glad I’m not part of that mess.”

          1. I don’t know, that’s a good question, but ricciardo wouldn’t give a honest answer, I think it’d be better to be number 2 at a top team than where he is now, at least he’d have got occasional wins.

      2. I think Danny has got different challenges tbh. Let him beat Lando first.

  10. Perez should be happy that he is still in F1 and driving for a top team. He knows he is there to be nr 2. Perez goal is to win races this year. Max goal is to win the WDC. I still hate Ferrari for Austria 2002 but teamorders is also part of F1 and no more than logic if you want the WDC

    1. Schumi_alonso
      22nd May 2022, 23:07

      Bet you don’t hte Ferrari for Germany 2010 then

      1. If Alonso had over a 80 point lead in the championship with double the points of 2nd place and Ferrari did that, it would have been different. And it was race 11 vs. race 6. Not the same thing. Ultimately, asking a driver to give up a win they’ve worked for is wrong, but to put Hockenheim 2010 on the same level as Austria 2002 is just unfair.

        1. 2018 sochi was also pretty low, the championship was realistically assured.

      2. Respect for the teams who let them race like McLaren in 2007. Ferrari in 2002 was dominant and without competition between the teammates it was clear shumi was going to win the WDC without a fight. Most boring year ever

        1. I respect McLaren for it too but ultimately, the end result was that both drivers lost out on the Championship by 1 point. Do you want “respect” or Championships?

          You also have to factor in that both drivers finished equal on points so how do you pick which one to back? If you let Schumacher/Barichello or Max/Perez race each other fairly all season, they wouldn’t be finishing equal on points.

    2. Exactly, just as Sainz is in support of Charles. Denial is not going to change that. The nr 1 s are clear except maybe at Mercedes. It is a two car team sport, not a single car team sport.

  11. That’s what you get when your best drive is risking everything with a title contenter on the last race, just to give a shot at your teammate.

  12. Yeah yeah. Welcome to the Barrichello-Massa-Bottas doormat club.

    1. Although they got the 1-2, Red Bull should not have asked Perez to let Verstappen through on the first occasion and Perez should have ignored them. Even if they didn’t know the extent of Verstappen’s DRS issues, they must have thought Verstappen’s spin would have done more harm than good to his tyres. It gave Russell a breather while Perez slowed to let Verstappen through. A pass and/or pitstops were imminent. It would have made more sense to keep the pressure on with one and undercut with the other. As it was Perez lost time and got pushed towards a slower strategy, while Verstappen stayed stuck behind Russell before and after the pitstops.

      Perez probably still doesn’t back himself to ignore team orders and deliver results. Verstappen, Hamilton, Vettel and Leclerc have all backed themselves to ignore team orders in the past, deliver results and apologize later.

      1. Yes, I don’t think it was a good idea to follow russell in the pit with verstappen either, why? With that drs problem he remained stuck behind for a long time, he should’ve pitted opposite to russell!

    2. I agree and I hate to see Checo like this!

      But in the end it’s still the best choice he’s got. As it was for Barrichello and Bottas…
      No other top team would have him and as an upside he’s very likely to collect a lot more silverware
      before he retires, eventually.

      1. And tbh he’s doing a better job than sainz is atm, and let’s not forget, felt weird when I heard the commentators the other race, but sainz still has no single race win!

    3. @knightameer Massa wasn’t a doormat in the Raikkonen years. The crunch was when Alonso overtook him going to the pits in China 2010, which was a huge ‘this is my team, you’re second’ moment. The only response was to do something similarlky ‘in your face’ to what Hamilton did in 2007 to assert his own position. But Massa didn’t and that was it. I also think he lost speed after his near fatal accident, understandable.

  13. “On the first stint when I let Max by I was told that I was going to get it back and we knew we were on different strategies,” Perez said after the race.

    Silly naive young man, Redbull is a one driver team with a second car to block. It has been since its inception and will continue.

    1. Until the 2nd driver becomes faster than the 1st…

      1. With a number 2 car with older parts and a conservative setup? Not happening.

        1. Noframingplease (@)
          23rd May 2022, 10:52

          For this race? Source please.

        2. Noframingplease (@)
          23rd May 2022, 16:52

          @roman Found it. Indeed, max drove with an updated car. Those updates where the source of the DRS problem he had during the race. So you reaction shows how distorted people can be. In the media Max earlier said that he doesn’t always want to be the RD department at RB. In many cases the updates cost him more time. But, when he wins his ‘ not so fans’, like you, are the first who like to mention these sort of things. The case That he is faster than Perez in almost every situation must be the conspiracy around that evil Redbull, isn’t it?

    2. Gabriel Souza
      24th May 2022, 17:53

      Funny how Max came in as a 2nd driver and Made Ricciardo quit the team later on lol

  14. Max was faster and would have passed him 2 or 3 laps later, anyway.

    However, I hope they treat Checo better than Merc treated Valtteri.

    Also it was very early in the season for team orders and ultimately none of us wants to
    see a change for the lead like this, do we?

    1. What is so difficult to understand? Ferrari and Leclerc dropped the ball big time today. What would you prefer as a team principal, to lead just the WCC or both? And seeing that Mercedes is about to join the battle for top team again, better to make sure the RB top dog gets as many points as possible, especially when Max had 2 DNFs and even that way he was ahead of Perez before the team orders today.

      1. Yes, true, with the DNFs verstappen had his points in relation to perez are lower than they should be.

  15. We are 6 races in, everyone should be given an opportunity to win their race and potentially chase a world championship. Horner tried to justify the call, but you know every time his lips move, he lies. It is too early for team orders.

    1. Noframingplease (@)
      23rd May 2022, 8:28

      What is it with that Horner type and blindness for the same behavior when Wolff does these things for 10 years?

  16. The Dolphins
    23rd May 2022, 4:20

    Obviously not the popular opinion but given the circumstances I believe I’d have asked the drivers to swap positions as well. This is not a Red Bull playbook, this is classic F1 with a #1 and #2 driver, a playbook perfected by Ross Brawn at Ferrari. It’s how championships are won, it’s how sponsorship money is earned.

  17. No issues with the team orders, but why lie to Perez? It’s just the usual disrespect to the #2 driver Red Bull has always shown. Tell it how it is, don’t say you’ll get the place back if you have no intention to give it back. Don’t say it will be fair if it’s not fair. Don’t say you treat both drivers equally if you don’t treat both drivers equally. It’s always been an issue with Red Bull. Flat out dishonesty.

    1. @skipgamer
      Yes, I needed to scroll down a lot to find a reply that made most sense to me. They should have called it what it is.

      Even better would be, with Leclerc out and P1 and P2 secured, no threat from behind: let them fight it out

    2. Noframingplease (@)
      23rd May 2022, 8:02

      True, but were you also worried about it when Bottas was in exactly the same position or is it a biase against RB? Reading the comments here I can only conclude that certain fans here have a memory problem.

      1. Its race, what, 6 out of 21?!
        I think most people understand the need for team orders when there is already an established fight going on with only one team mate for the championship and the other one realistically out, but not this early..

        But coming from Red-Bull its really no surprise.

    3. @skipgamer More or less my feeling too. There’s nothing barring Red Bull from having a clear number one driver who’ll be prioritized whenever possible. But be honest about it. Not to say I like it. Some of the best racing over the years has been between team mates, though it only tends to get really feisty (leaving aside Haas…) when both are fighting for a championship.

      1. @skipgamer Except that the very one who should be offended the most, Perez, would not say he was lied to. Circumstances changed.

  18. A dark day for redbull and max in my opinion. Soo early in the championship and perez ia asked to move over for max.

    1. As long as you acknowledge then that in recent years Mercedes and Ferrari have had their equally ‘dark days,’ not that of course even Checo is considering his contribution to an RBR 1-2 a ‘dark day.’ And of course Mercedes and Ferrari lived to fight another day after their ‘dark days,’ lol.

      Yeah it didn’t quite go his way yesterday, but then it is not like he is qualifying higher than Max, finishing races higher, and has more points than him. If SP wants to avoid another ‘dark day’ he just needs to outqualify everyone and control the race from the start like those fighting for the WDC tend to try to do, and actually do on occasion.

  19. Pretty shameful using team orders at this stage of the season but everyone already knew that Perez is number 2 to Verstappen. At the end of the day they nearly lost the WDC title last year so it’s pretty clear they’re not going to take a chance of leaving any points on the board this year. Perez will be thrown under the bus many more times this year in the pursuit of gaining Max points. Lets be clear, it’s not breaking the rules despite how distasteful it might be to others.

    1. @slowmo All true. However, no more BS from Red Bull, please, about Perez having any chance of being allowed to compete versus Max in the championship.

      1. @slowmo @david-br ‘Shameful?’ ‘No more BS?’

        Really? Ok well as long as you have said the same thing about LH/VB and SV/CL for their exact same behaviour in recent years.

        Since we have seen that SP can be pretty potent in that car, for otherwise there wouldn’t be this debate, it seems then that Checo is not at a car disadvantage. Surely then it is up to Checo to change the narrative on the team by outqualifying Max and ensuring during the race there would be no reason to put slower Max ahead of him.

        1. I don’t think they’re the same at all @robbie . I’ve made the point already elsewhere: it’s dubious, I think, to claim Mercedes have ever favoured Hamilton at a season start, he’s won the right to be favoured later in the season on that season’s performance. The same applies to Vettel and Leclerc, at least in their first season. Vettel’s last year at Ferrari is tricky to assess as they announced he was off very early in the season and obviously had Leclerc as ‘the future’ with a degree of animosity left between Vettel and the team (apparent on DtS).
          So would Red Bull ever put someone at Leclerc or Russell’s level alongside Max? I doubt it. But that, in a way, is the only way to test the theory that they might allow racing between the drivers as they did, for a short while, between Vettel and Webber, or between Verstappen and Ricciardo (until Baku). In the end, that’s what I’d like to see. Same as I’d like to see Leclerc battling with Sainz, or Hamilton with Russell (perhaps the most likely at some point this season).

          1. @david-br Oh I’m pretty sure for a couple of seasons out of VB’s 5 at Mercedes he was having to give it up for LH just as early in the season, aside from the fact of them simply retaining a driver one year at a time to ensure only kittens and roses on the team in terms of any driver rivalry. That fact betrays your choice to ignore that LH was actually favoured from race 1’s of the seasons with VB, in exactly the same way you accuse RBR of not hiring higher calibre drivers to go up against their star.

            Anyway yeah RBR did their best to retain DR and I’m sure would have far preferred he stayed than to have had to go through the not yet ready Gasly and Albon seasons. Now that SP has his first season at RBR behind him he is indeed in the mix such that this debate has now come up. He was closer to a potential win this weekend. All he has to do now is step it up a notch and give you the fight he seems to be building up to, and start outqualifying the rest and going on to finishing first in races. That’s how he’ll ensure to never have to let Max past again. He is obviously not at a car disadvantage.

            And yeah now that they need an heir to LH’s throne they’ve hired a driver that by all accounts seems much better than VB. But only because LH is in the sunset of his career.

            That said though I will always respect TW for having re-signed Rosberg mid-2016 for two more seasons, through 2018, but for Nico to retire. Mind you many around here would happily point out Nico was also inferior, and indeed he could have been replaced by someone better too. And wasn’t. Rather they wanted more of him and then when they had to scramble and poach VB from Williams, they found it to be roses and kittens by comparison and that’s what they continued on with for 5 seasons. Don’t tell me about shame on RBR not hiring higher calibre teammates for Max when LH gets to be called GOAT for having a dominant car and a non-competing teammate most of the time.

          2. @robbie Well, I respect it’s your view, but I don’t see that Mercedes favoured Hamilton early on in a season against Bottas. Did they deliberately hire a weaker driver than Rosberg to make sure there were no more destabilizing intra-team rivalries? You’d have to name the alternative, better driver. There weren’t any available when Rosberg made his announcement. With Max a no no and Ricciardo already signed to Renault, Alonso ruled out by Merc, Bottas was pretty much the best available. Did they keep him so long (too long) because it was convenient to have a de facto number two while Mercedes were dominant? Yes, on that I agree it’s a major factor. However, that’s a situation that evolved over time and still doesn’t equate with actively favouring Lewis. Doesn’t mean I liked it. As you know, I was calling for them to sign Russell two seasons back.

          3. Gabriel Souza
            24th May 2022, 17:57

            Bottas had to let Hamilton past in Spain last year in the 4th race, stop lying.

        2. @robbie Sure, the day Hamilton ever has a teammate pull over for him and let him win less than half way through a season for a win you might have a point. Using team orders so early in the season is shameful, if you disagree then fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion.

          For the record I’d be unimpressed regardless who did it. I have no issue with team orders when it’s tactically sound (such as McLaren guaranteeing their 1-2 last year) or in general holding station requests if a team is concerned about an accident between cars if allowed to race.

          I do think though that asking one driver to give way to another when they’re legitimately competing for a result against each other is out of order. It wasn’t like the win was ever in doubt at the time it happened for either driver. I’ve never liked it and never will but there is at least some justification if you’re at the business end of the year and one of your drivers is no longer in contention. By starting this practice now, they’re effectively hamstrung Perez’s season already and it’s impossible for him to beat Verstappen because every race he’s fighting withr a nhandicap to his teammate. This is largely why Ricciardo left them.

          1. @slowmo Just to be clear, in my perfect F1 world we would have all drivers fighting each other at all times teammate or not. No orders. And only the very top drivers on the very top teams. They all have a dream to race in F1 and win the WDC. In fact I have advocated in the past for teams to have two of their major sponsors each with a car on the team painted very differently in spite of being on the same team, so that a team would be less likely to hang one driver (read: major sponsor) out to dry. Let them settle it on the track. But we know this is a decades long debate. The last time this was brought up, since it’s been done before, was when BAR wanted a 555 car and a Lucky Strike car and BE said it would be too confusing for the audience.

            I’m not saying I like team orders, particularly early in the season, but let’s not pretend this is only an RBR thing. I have always been an advocate for team orders to only come into play when it only makes mathematical sense, which also coincides with the secondary driver by that point instinctively knowing it no longer makes sense for him to rob points from the one driver on the team that has the WDC shot. Ie. I like team orders to be used when an actual order needn’t even be uttered such is the common sense of it and that’s usually in the last third of the season.

            I think what we saw yesterday was SP get closer to a legit win than usual, and I’m certainly not convinced he was faster than Max yesterday although perhaps Max’s DRS issue masked that, and that tells me that SP is not disadvantaged car-wise and therefore has it within his control to make himself the leader and therefore not be ordered back.

            So I disagree that SP starts with a handicap. His only handicap right now is that he hasn’t been taking his win-capable car and qualifying as well with it nor finishing as well, nor has Sainz, and this season as a result as been shaping itself into a Max/Charles season. Nothing whatsoever, talent aside, is preventing SP from changing the narrative if he has it in him.

            DR left after Max came into his (DR’s) RBR and within 2 1/2 season was doing half the numbers and results of Max. Checo has every opportunity to do the same to Max, but I’m afraid it starts with not qualifying 6th for example. He needed to start the season stamping his authority when the situation could not be more equal given the newness of these cars. Checo can look himself in the mirror for his season so far as no small part of why they gave it up for Max at this race of such unique circumstances. Want to avoid this in the future Checo? Put Max in your dust. How else you going to win the WDC? By Horner order? Not really something to take to the bank. The bankable stuff is what Max and Charles are doing.

  20. It is funny to see the same people here, who where crucifying Wolff for favoring Hamilton over Bottas, finding all kind of justifications in Horner doing the same thing with Verstapen and Perez and so early in the season. Substantial dose of hypocrisy on the fizzy drink side starting with Horner. Me think?

    1. It is funny to see the same people here who praised Wolff for keeping hiring non-competing, non-racecraft Bottas a year at a time to never take points away from GOAT LH, finding all kinds of justifications for running Horner into the ground for favouring his WDC driver that is likely the far and away odds on favourite to fight for the WDC as evidenced by the season standings so far.

  21. Horner just realized that Mercedes has fixed their problems and Hamilton will soon be winning bunches of races, and that Masi Verstappen* is only 64 point ahead of Lewis with 16 races to go. No way will Horner allow Perez to take points away from Masi.

    1. Convenient of you to ignore the much better position GR is in, lol. And lol ‘only’ 64 points. If LH had that kind of lead over Max folks around here would already be handing him the WDC. Let’s start by seeing if LH can keep GR behind him. Let’s see how Mercedes does at other types of tracks. They only just got more competitive at Spain. There may be some tracks coming up soon that put Mercedes right back where they have been relative to Ferrari and RBR up until this weekend. Mercedes have found some better form at one race and it’s still not enough. Before you start handing LH ‘bunches’ of wins, he’s going to actually have to win them.

      1. If you think MB won’t get much more competitive after Spain then you don’t understand MB or LH. GR will be overhauled very quickly. And 64 points in 16 races is 4 points per race. Not insurmountable at all.

        1. Hamilton or Russell will not be beating Verstappen this year. While the car looked better, it’s still only third fastest albeit a bit closer to the front.

          1. @slowmo I don’t know about that. Lewis was probably the fastest out there in the race. Though it may be that the new modifications to the car were flattered by the circuit. Also Red Bull and Ferrari seem more prone to mechanical failures, partly why the Mercedes aren’t miles behind already in terms of points.

        2. @greenflag I agree with Horner that MB should never be underestimated…they’ve proven that…they’ve earned that. I think we have all expected MB to improve. It’s just at what rate, and for me given how their season has gone so far I think the onus is on them to actually prove that they will be just as formidable at Monaco etc etc. now. I don’t consider it unreasonable at all to expect in the next 2 or 3 races Mercedes back to spending more time and energy wrestling the car than racing with it. I still expect it to be unpredictable for no small reason than that we know every track is different as are the conditions. For me they’re just going to have to prove they have found some performance in their car at all tracks and all conditions like Ferrari and RBR for the most part have shown from the getgo. Maybe they have made a big step that will be consistent. But they’re still going to need some leaps and start to dominate if they’re going to start to reverse the math. And LH is somehow going to have to leap past GR too.

  22. I said this before i will repeat myself… Mercedes designed avery fast, quick car. They had a probpem with stability that had them sacrifice performance. They studied the issue. They made a few options they trialled them. They have found the solution to the stability problem. They will now focus on performance and increase the stability of the car. They will very soon be at the very tip of the sharp end. Lewis from before f1 was a legend. Lewis in f1 is a legend. George from before f1 also legendary. In F1 well this race just showed how good he is. Together with a performing car are going to be unbeatable.

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